As a late Gen Z guy, I loved this article. You nailed it.
The point you made about dating is really important and it's something I wish more older guys understood. I see a lot of girls around my age who are also struggling and I've started to realise how difficult finding love is for many of them too. Whilst we are far from allies now, in future I'd love to build some sort of alliance with these girls to create a dating culture which works for normal people.
I saw you comment elsewhere that you thought straight guys were more whiny and I wanted to add my (whiny straight guy) perspective. In dating, gay guys my age appear to have it much easier, dating apps seem to work for them whereas the apps really don't work for many or even most straight guys. Gay guys are praised for expressing their sexuality in ways which straight men are attacked for.
As strange or unbelievable as it sounds, it seems far more socially acceptable in my age group for me to go and hit on a guy rather than a woman.
Thanks for taking the time to write this. I'm trying to find hope instead of nihilism and this article was what I needed to read.
Thanks Marvin, means a lot. I was being somewhat cheeky when I commented about whiny straight guys. And you make a good point that they have it harder in the dating arena.
It's wild that gay flirting is more socially acceptable in your generation - tough for my Gen X brain to comprehend. Thanks for reading and commenting, and best of luck with everything.
Grindr really is 100x better than other dating apps. There is little to no "algorithm" and forced time wasting on swipes, you just message someone you think is interesting or message them back. That or I got the average experience of a female on Tinder as a trans girl on Grindr...
As a zoomer, I feel my generation has already irrevocably fried our brains to a certain degree with the internet and electronic devices, but there's hope for gen alpha. When we have kids (which seems like it'll mostly happen at a later stage than it did for earlier generations and at a lower rate), I hope we find out what millennial parents will have done to prevent their gen alpha kids from ending up like us
As a dad to a gen alpha, I hope we figure it out quickly. I suspect it’s going to take banning social media for minors, keeping phones out of schools, and other measures. It’s a struggle.
I fear you're right. (Covid alone wrecked havoc.) But I think/hope we can work through SOME of the issues and suspect Gen Alpha will have a higher degree of educational variance, for better and worse.
I started to realize in the mid to late 2000s that our institutions where fundamentally not equipped for the 21st century. Much of this shaped by my time in the military from 2001-2008. To my dismay our institutions have fundamentally failed to achieve the aggressive reform needed. Mostly due to our fractured political system that can’t focus on this. This has led to some populist movements to “burn them down,” with the classic failings of not presenting what will replace them. Does something truly catastrophic have to occur for our political system to awake from its slumber - see WWII. I hope not, I think the continued slow death of our 20th century institutions will lead to a slow reawakening of a new consensus on what our 21st century institutions need to be. I’m hopeful the Zoomers might enter into this breach with all the potential opportunities that will present themselves.
Yeah it's definitely an issue. Our institutions need to adapt faster. As much of a challenge as it may be, Zoomers have the opportunity to be a part of that.
This has been such an excellent series Jeff. As a boomer I'm finding these profiles and letters to be very helpful in understanding men outside of my own chronological framing.
Thanks Rick. It's been a fun exercise in empathy and generational anthropology. I've tried to make them personal and sympathetic, while hopefully not overdoing the caricaturing. Each generation has something different stirring within them. Any project like this involves some gross generalizations, but I hope to have captured some of what's happening under the hood.
I'd say you've succeeded very well in this, but I can only vouch for how well you described my own experience of my generation. Curious to what Zoomers have to say about this one. I'm going to forward it to two of my kids who in this demographic.
On these Zoomers and gen Alpha, I've noticed in my younger relatives and child a marked willingness to let go of electronics. Oversaturation & early exposure had their attention bounce back and prefer interaction with other people over ipads or tv.
As a Gen Z guy this was a heart warming essay for one simple reason: you had something positive and encouraging to say about us.
We never hear that. Mass following of Jordan Peters on and even Andrew Tate can largely be explained by the fact that they have something positive to say, something encouraging.
Why do more people not do this? Why does the mainstream seem to deride young men so much?
I feel a Kenny Rogers poker analogy here--and any wonder why poker is so popular today??
Every hand's a winner, and every hand's a loser, and (to put it better than Kenny did) no one gets out of here alive. So play it the best you can while you can.
I tell these guys to be stubborn, because that's what's required of them. It's not easy but a lack of grit will make everything more difficult, especially when there's a community ready to sympathize with you at every turn
It has been my experience many 'Zoomers' have way more knowledge and awareness than I did at their age. Their external world looks like they are on great paths and have it together. The ones I have the opportunity to have deep discussions with are hurting internally. They wonder if they are doing enough, have enough, and are enough. The flashy comparison culture they have grown up with, where people are always posting 'perfect' moments, have them constantly second guessing. Not mention the dopamine addiction is unprecedented. Once this generation adapts to the new reality, we can expect to see significant global progress in meshing cultures, environmental change, and hopefully they can exterminate the political sniping culture so people can start to work together despite different opinions.
Maybe it makes sense to remain earnest and hopeful. But if housing, women and opportunities are only accessible for professional athletes, then this advice is cynical and unrealistic. Nobody can fix women. But the adults need to fix housing. If we don’t do that, then these men should sensibly ignore this advice, indulge in gaming, and wait for the robot girlfriends.
Good point, and poorly phrased on my part. “If women are exclusively attracted to professional athletes”, would have been a better way to phrase it.
Is even the second statement true? Yeah, probably, to a first approximation. Most women are attracted to tall, fit men, and this means a significant degree of athletic talent.
? An average wealthy man, even if fat and ugly, would do better than an average athlete.
Both women and men are “fixable.” Helen Roy wrote a very good article on the subject a few years back:
Instead we labor under the liberal delusion that human beings are merely “individuals”: irreducible atomic units, indistinguishable from (and equal to) one another in the drive to survive on an individual basis. To regard a human person as an individual is to make people into abstractions, whose choices can only be legitimately analyzed and understood in a material or economic sense. Everything in America reduces along these lines. Sex, culture, friendship, religion, political affiliation, “gender identity”: all of these become matters of notional value and arbitrary choice in the liberal landscape.
Though you can get a house quite easily if you avoid the college meme and marriage meme, aka dodge whatever tradcuck narrative is being peddled there because misery loves company.
... which came first the zoomer or the zoom?...waiting on aretha franklin to help me figure that out ( https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gi6yGuvKv_E )...great series Jeff...curious to hear your thoughts of reflection on what you learned in this series...how should the generations work together...also not sure if you have energy or interest but where do the generations of women, etc. factor into these generational paradigms?...you have opened some doors...interested to see what other doors you might open next...
I Zoomin' you! There really is a music video for everything. I'll probably do a reflection because I've learned a lot from the series. Thanks for all of your support.
No, they are not. I am 46 and when I was 18 literally everybody in the class never wanted to have kids as the most obvious thing ever. That would be make me like my parents, ugh, the most boring, least cool, least "in" people ever.
At 28 I would have said not yet, I feel like I am still child, not ready for the responsibility.
At 35 I said well there is nothing else to do, so okay, let's do it.
I guess I am wondering whether any Zoomer men/boys have the attention span or capacity to even read an article this length. You have one who commented, so I assume that means there's at least one. But my understanding is that teachers and professors generally can no longer assign reading of more than a few pages tops bc no one will read it. Which is not surprising since even older people who were once voracious readers often can no longer read a whole book (and I am sadly semi in that category myself).
Many of the Zoomer men I've met are highly functional. My sample selection is pretty biased. I'm sure I have blind spots... My objective has been to seek out the common threads at the soul-level.
As a late Gen Z guy, I loved this article. You nailed it.
The point you made about dating is really important and it's something I wish more older guys understood. I see a lot of girls around my age who are also struggling and I've started to realise how difficult finding love is for many of them too. Whilst we are far from allies now, in future I'd love to build some sort of alliance with these girls to create a dating culture which works for normal people.
I saw you comment elsewhere that you thought straight guys were more whiny and I wanted to add my (whiny straight guy) perspective. In dating, gay guys my age appear to have it much easier, dating apps seem to work for them whereas the apps really don't work for many or even most straight guys. Gay guys are praised for expressing their sexuality in ways which straight men are attacked for.
As strange or unbelievable as it sounds, it seems far more socially acceptable in my age group for me to go and hit on a guy rather than a woman.
Thanks for taking the time to write this. I'm trying to find hope instead of nihilism and this article was what I needed to read.
Thanks Marvin, means a lot. I was being somewhat cheeky when I commented about whiny straight guys. And you make a good point that they have it harder in the dating arena.
It's wild that gay flirting is more socially acceptable in your generation - tough for my Gen X brain to comprehend. Thanks for reading and commenting, and best of luck with everything.
Grindr really is 100x better than other dating apps. There is little to no "algorithm" and forced time wasting on swipes, you just message someone you think is interesting or message them back. That or I got the average experience of a female on Tinder as a trans girl on Grindr...
As a zoomer, I feel my generation has already irrevocably fried our brains to a certain degree with the internet and electronic devices, but there's hope for gen alpha. When we have kids (which seems like it'll mostly happen at a later stage than it did for earlier generations and at a lower rate), I hope we find out what millennial parents will have done to prevent their gen alpha kids from ending up like us
As a dad to a gen alpha, I hope we figure it out quickly. I suspect it’s going to take banning social media for minors, keeping phones out of schools, and other measures. It’s a struggle.
Hate to break this to you dude but gen alpha is way worse
I fear you're right. (Covid alone wrecked havoc.) But I think/hope we can work through SOME of the issues and suspect Gen Alpha will have a higher degree of educational variance, for better and worse.
I started to realize in the mid to late 2000s that our institutions where fundamentally not equipped for the 21st century. Much of this shaped by my time in the military from 2001-2008. To my dismay our institutions have fundamentally failed to achieve the aggressive reform needed. Mostly due to our fractured political system that can’t focus on this. This has led to some populist movements to “burn them down,” with the classic failings of not presenting what will replace them. Does something truly catastrophic have to occur for our political system to awake from its slumber - see WWII. I hope not, I think the continued slow death of our 20th century institutions will lead to a slow reawakening of a new consensus on what our 21st century institutions need to be. I’m hopeful the Zoomers might enter into this breach with all the potential opportunities that will present themselves.
Yeah it's definitely an issue. Our institutions need to adapt faster. As much of a challenge as it may be, Zoomers have the opportunity to be a part of that.
Great article, definitely got me thinking.
appreciate it, thank you
This has been such an excellent series Jeff. As a boomer I'm finding these profiles and letters to be very helpful in understanding men outside of my own chronological framing.
Thanks Rick. It's been a fun exercise in empathy and generational anthropology. I've tried to make them personal and sympathetic, while hopefully not overdoing the caricaturing. Each generation has something different stirring within them. Any project like this involves some gross generalizations, but I hope to have captured some of what's happening under the hood.
I'd say you've succeeded very well in this, but I can only vouch for how well you described my own experience of my generation. Curious to what Zoomers have to say about this one. I'm going to forward it to two of my kids who in this demographic.
Thanks for forwarding it, Rick. I'll be curious about what they and other Zoomers make of it.
On these Zoomers and gen Alpha, I've noticed in my younger relatives and child a marked willingness to let go of electronics. Oversaturation & early exposure had their attention bounce back and prefer interaction with other people over ipads or tv.
Or I'm just lucky.
I'd love the formula for that, haha. After Babel is a great substack for this stuff. Reading this article now: https://www.afterbabel.com/p/treating-childhood-anxiety
As a Gen Z guy this was a heart warming essay for one simple reason: you had something positive and encouraging to say about us.
We never hear that. Mass following of Jordan Peters on and even Andrew Tate can largely be explained by the fact that they have something positive to say, something encouraging.
Why do more people not do this? Why does the mainstream seem to deride young men so much?
Thanks Adam. It's a good question. I don't have an answer.
1967
I feel a Kenny Rogers poker analogy here--and any wonder why poker is so popular today??
Every hand's a winner, and every hand's a loser, and (to put it better than Kenny did) no one gets out of here alive. So play it the best you can while you can.
I tell these guys to be stubborn, because that's what's required of them. It's not easy but a lack of grit will make everything more difficult, especially when there's a community ready to sympathize with you at every turn
I love this Jeff. Grateful for your compassion and thoughtfulness.
appreciate it, andrew
It has been my experience many 'Zoomers' have way more knowledge and awareness than I did at their age. Their external world looks like they are on great paths and have it together. The ones I have the opportunity to have deep discussions with are hurting internally. They wonder if they are doing enough, have enough, and are enough. The flashy comparison culture they have grown up with, where people are always posting 'perfect' moments, have them constantly second guessing. Not mention the dopamine addiction is unprecedented. Once this generation adapts to the new reality, we can expect to see significant global progress in meshing cultures, environmental change, and hopefully they can exterminate the political sniping culture so people can start to work together despite different opinions.
Maybe it makes sense to remain earnest and hopeful. But if housing, women and opportunities are only accessible for professional athletes, then this advice is cynical and unrealistic. Nobody can fix women. But the adults need to fix housing. If we don’t do that, then these men should sensibly ignore this advice, indulge in gaming, and wait for the robot girlfriends.
are women accessible only to professional athletes?
Good point, and poorly phrased on my part. “If women are exclusively attracted to professional athletes”, would have been a better way to phrase it.
Is even the second statement true? Yeah, probably, to a first approximation. Most women are attracted to tall, fit men, and this means a significant degree of athletic talent.
? An average wealthy man, even if fat and ugly, would do better than an average athlete.
Both women and men are “fixable.” Helen Roy wrote a very good article on the subject a few years back:
Instead we labor under the liberal delusion that human beings are merely “individuals”: irreducible atomic units, indistinguishable from (and equal to) one another in the drive to survive on an individual basis. To regard a human person as an individual is to make people into abstractions, whose choices can only be legitimately analyzed and understood in a material or economic sense. Everything in America reduces along these lines. Sex, culture, friendship, religion, political affiliation, “gender identity”: all of these become matters of notional value and arbitrary choice in the liberal landscape.
https://thewomanquestion.substack.com/p/women-are-not-ok
Women haven’t been invented yet.
Though you can get a house quite easily if you avoid the college meme and marriage meme, aka dodge whatever tradcuck narrative is being peddled there because misery loves company.
... which came first the zoomer or the zoom?...waiting on aretha franklin to help me figure that out ( https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gi6yGuvKv_E )...great series Jeff...curious to hear your thoughts of reflection on what you learned in this series...how should the generations work together...also not sure if you have energy or interest but where do the generations of women, etc. factor into these generational paradigms?...you have opened some doors...interested to see what other doors you might open next...
I Zoomin' you! There really is a music video for everything. I'll probably do a reflection because I've learned a lot from the series. Thanks for all of your support.
Although I don't actually know any Zoomers, this sounds accurate - and excellent, as always.
Our institutions are like "calvary" or cavalry?
*fixed thx :)
>Will I ever be able to support a family?
No, they are not. I am 46 and when I was 18 literally everybody in the class never wanted to have kids as the most obvious thing ever. That would be make me like my parents, ugh, the most boring, least cool, least "in" people ever.
At 28 I would have said not yet, I feel like I am still child, not ready for the responsibility.
At 35 I said well there is nothing else to do, so okay, let's do it.
So no zoomers are not thinking about this yet.
I'm 21 and I'm absolutely thinking about this.
I guess I am wondering whether any Zoomer men/boys have the attention span or capacity to even read an article this length. You have one who commented, so I assume that means there's at least one. But my understanding is that teachers and professors generally can no longer assign reading of more than a few pages tops bc no one will read it. Which is not surprising since even older people who were once voracious readers often can no longer read a whole book (and I am sadly semi in that category myself).
Many of the Zoomer men I've met are highly functional. My sample selection is pretty biased. I'm sure I have blind spots... My objective has been to seek out the common threads at the soul-level.