I'm pretty sure "white dudes for Harris" only attracts guys who were already going to vote for Harris. To everyone else, it is just SUPER CRINGE!
I've had friends and employees who have never voted in their entire lives (and they are from 40-60) go out and vote for Trump because Kamala was so bad. The results corroborate this phenomenon in every state.
Yes, my visceral reaction to the “white dudes for Harris” is that I feel a profound sense of humiliation FOR that person. I can’t even take him seriously as a political opponent, I can only pity him.
It would be like if a coworker showed up to work wearing a diaper and explained it was because he spoke out of turn towards his wife last night, and he deserved it. Same energy.
To be clear, I know good white men who voted for Kamala, for one reason or another. Trump is bad, I get it. I’m only talking about those leaning into the “We’re MAN ENOUGH to vote for a woman of color!” thing.
One of the things I did notice is that all the men doing that were talking about how they supported women. Not about how she would keep their healthcare, not blow up prices with tariffs, or be less likely to start a nuclear war out of pique or something like that. That ad actually made me want to vote for Trump, because I resent feminism.
I actually voted for Harris out of what I perceived as pure self-interest--I am an American, I think Trump is too arrogant to listen to his advisors and is bad for America and produce inflation, diminishing the savings I've built up, and break alliances and increase corruption, which will damage the country over the long term.
Well, now that everything's identity some people have arrows pulling them in opposite directions.
I guess if you're a straight white guy who hasn't gone to college and has kids you're comfortable around Trump, and if you're a gay black woman who has you are really excited about Harris.
But what if you're a gay white guy with an advanced degree and are sick of hearing about how bad white men are? What if you're a straight white woman who went to college but is worried about her son getting kicked out of college for something? What if you're a blue-collar straight Latin guy who finds Trump's talk about Mexicans unpleasant but likes his energy? What if you're a straight-ish Hispanic-Jewish guy with an advanced degree who doesn't know which side to be afraid of more?
That and in the arts the right is incapable of subtlety or producing any work of quality, and the left insists on ideological correctness to a degree that drives people to anime.
The identity pulls are true. I'm gay and a dad and lean right, so purple suits me. I like my yoga moms and F150 dads alike. Too much one way or the other is suffocating.
There's also a sense of GenX 'this is America, stop trying to tell everyone else how to live their lives' for me, that seems lost in people under 40. You wanna live in a house with white picket fences in a monogamous marriage? Go for it. You wanna live in a polyamorous commune? More power to you. It's a big country and I don't know why we have to be in everyone's business.
Reasonable and defensible takes. As I shared on one of your pre-election posts, I'm looking forward (and hoping) to a time where we're not trying to sell each other on septugenarians in diapers.
Let's all try to survive the next few years. Then, it is time for younger blood to demonstrate leadership and get a chance to ride out of the gate.
Thanks, Jeff. Not that I am some master arbiter of good taste, but you are one of the few people on either side whose politics posts don't want to make me press the mute button.
Re #2, given all the tooth-gnashing now, it may well be more appropriate to simply retitle that point "Boy November". In fact, amidst all the anguished Twitter screeds from Democratic strategists about "needing to have a conversation about white-adjacent" blacks, Asians, and Latinos, I suspect that is even more galling to the powers that be than if Harris had just lost because of those darn 4chan white boy gamers in Ohio. Even Claire's article pointed out the racial diversity of the Trumpers in New York these days.
You rightfully pointed out that the White Dudes for Harris campaign was a step in the right direction, but hindsight is always 20-20; just as many people see Trump as the kind of person who just doesn't like women, many people also see Harris and her party as the kind of people who just don't like men. I am sure this will inevitably be met with a protestation that not liking women and not liking men aren't comparable, and men should realize being liked isn't a human right, but such a comment would be a more perfect coda to this entire episode than anything else I could muster.
I do sympathize with your earlier piece on how masculinity is important for understanding politics and society while wishing we could talk about it less. But unfortunately for you and me, as of today, that seems like a pipe dream. Like it or not, masculinity, guys, chuds, blokes, dudes, and bros are going to be in the news for a good long while. So as tempting as it might be, we've got to resist the urge to drink the chud juice and keep trying to get down to the root of how we can make our lonely, alienated, uncomfortable, and left-behind men feel heard and become actualized in a way that doesn't offend society's impulses. Maybe this time, people might feel the need to listen.
Thanks Chazz. Appreciate the compliment. You're right about the guy thing as a multiracial phenomenon, but "White Boy November" was too fun to pass up. :) The masculinity issues are fascinating. Even though I wrote the piece, "shut up about masculinity," I also am like "here's yet another masculinity piece"....
I agree with the need for empathy for left-behind men. I'm thinking of starting a section of my substack called "Lost Brothers: unconventional life advice for men." That said, I've grown intolerant of antisocial behaviors and attitudes, like those who call others epithets. Some are truly lost, but I hold hope they can find their way.
I check in on 4chan every month or so, and it's always interesting how, well, heterodox the discourse can be. I always come away with the impression that there are at least a handful of older, smarter, more compassionate people trying to reach out and talk troubled kids down from various ledges. It's distinct from the usual trollish contrarianism which delights in cosplaying a Zionist as much as a neo-Nazi. Whether this originates from inside or outside the community, I have no idea.
I go straight for the filth, but it's not something I would ever recommend to anybody. Like eating a durian and smoking a stinky cigar on the toilet while the kids are in school and the house is quiet.
It's only because it's been so demonized that we feel uncomfortable talking about it, though. Prior ages were happy to talk about manliness, real men, virility, 'muscular Christianity', and make movies like Westerns and war movies where men worked together to defeat an opponent. By the late 20th century it was relegated to the realm of fantasy, but Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, Frodo Baggins, Aragorn, Captain Kirk, Mr. Spock, Jean-Luc Picard, and William Riker, to name a few, all behaved in masculine ways sooner or later, working together with other men as a group to face danger and defend their homeland.
We learned a lot today. It's pretty rare that we measure anything so broadly as we do during an election. Better to pay attention than to deny valuable information.
I don't think this works in just one direction - i.e. that we strictly measure the attitudes of the population. We are measuring the way a population responds to a message - a leader or whatnot. The election measures an interaction between the population and the consensus within it.
I'm pretty sure "white dudes for Harris" only attracts guys who were already going to vote for Harris. To everyone else, it is just SUPER CRINGE!
I've had friends and employees who have never voted in their entire lives (and they are from 40-60) go out and vote for Trump because Kamala was so bad. The results corroborate this phenomenon in every state.
Yes, my visceral reaction to the “white dudes for Harris” is that I feel a profound sense of humiliation FOR that person. I can’t even take him seriously as a political opponent, I can only pity him.
It would be like if a coworker showed up to work wearing a diaper and explained it was because he spoke out of turn towards his wife last night, and he deserved it. Same energy.
To be clear, I know good white men who voted for Kamala, for one reason or another. Trump is bad, I get it. I’m only talking about those leaning into the “We’re MAN ENOUGH to vote for a woman of color!” thing.
One of the things I did notice is that all the men doing that were talking about how they supported women. Not about how she would keep their healthcare, not blow up prices with tariffs, or be less likely to start a nuclear war out of pique or something like that. That ad actually made me want to vote for Trump, because I resent feminism.
I actually voted for Harris out of what I perceived as pure self-interest--I am an American, I think Trump is too arrogant to listen to his advisors and is bad for America and produce inflation, diminishing the savings I've built up, and break alliances and increase corruption, which will damage the country over the long term.
I’m with you on the Power of Purple.
Well, now that everything's identity some people have arrows pulling them in opposite directions.
I guess if you're a straight white guy who hasn't gone to college and has kids you're comfortable around Trump, and if you're a gay black woman who has you are really excited about Harris.
But what if you're a gay white guy with an advanced degree and are sick of hearing about how bad white men are? What if you're a straight white woman who went to college but is worried about her son getting kicked out of college for something? What if you're a blue-collar straight Latin guy who finds Trump's talk about Mexicans unpleasant but likes his energy? What if you're a straight-ish Hispanic-Jewish guy with an advanced degree who doesn't know which side to be afraid of more?
That and in the arts the right is incapable of subtlety or producing any work of quality, and the left insists on ideological correctness to a degree that drives people to anime.
The identity pulls are true. I'm gay and a dad and lean right, so purple suits me. I like my yoga moms and F150 dads alike. Too much one way or the other is suffocating.
I was the last one. ;)
There's also a sense of GenX 'this is America, stop trying to tell everyone else how to live their lives' for me, that seems lost in people under 40. You wanna live in a house with white picket fences in a monogamous marriage? Go for it. You wanna live in a polyamorous commune? More power to you. It's a big country and I don't know why we have to be in everyone's business.
Hoping he puts Elbridge Colby in and not podcasters
<3 <3 <3 thank you for sharing and giving us a bit of hope.
Thanks Christin!
Reasonable and defensible takes. As I shared on one of your pre-election posts, I'm looking forward (and hoping) to a time where we're not trying to sell each other on septugenarians in diapers.
Let's all try to survive the next few years. Then, it is time for younger blood to demonstrate leadership and get a chance to ride out of the gate.
Thanks Rajeev <3 Totally agree about the need for youth. If I had room for another hot take it would be that this was the last boomer election.
Thanks, Jeff. Not that I am some master arbiter of good taste, but you are one of the few people on either side whose politics posts don't want to make me press the mute button.
Re #2, given all the tooth-gnashing now, it may well be more appropriate to simply retitle that point "Boy November". In fact, amidst all the anguished Twitter screeds from Democratic strategists about "needing to have a conversation about white-adjacent" blacks, Asians, and Latinos, I suspect that is even more galling to the powers that be than if Harris had just lost because of those darn 4chan white boy gamers in Ohio. Even Claire's article pointed out the racial diversity of the Trumpers in New York these days.
You rightfully pointed out that the White Dudes for Harris campaign was a step in the right direction, but hindsight is always 20-20; just as many people see Trump as the kind of person who just doesn't like women, many people also see Harris and her party as the kind of people who just don't like men. I am sure this will inevitably be met with a protestation that not liking women and not liking men aren't comparable, and men should realize being liked isn't a human right, but such a comment would be a more perfect coda to this entire episode than anything else I could muster.
I do sympathize with your earlier piece on how masculinity is important for understanding politics and society while wishing we could talk about it less. But unfortunately for you and me, as of today, that seems like a pipe dream. Like it or not, masculinity, guys, chuds, blokes, dudes, and bros are going to be in the news for a good long while. So as tempting as it might be, we've got to resist the urge to drink the chud juice and keep trying to get down to the root of how we can make our lonely, alienated, uncomfortable, and left-behind men feel heard and become actualized in a way that doesn't offend society's impulses. Maybe this time, people might feel the need to listen.
Thanks Chazz. Appreciate the compliment. You're right about the guy thing as a multiracial phenomenon, but "White Boy November" was too fun to pass up. :) The masculinity issues are fascinating. Even though I wrote the piece, "shut up about masculinity," I also am like "here's yet another masculinity piece"....
I agree with the need for empathy for left-behind men. I'm thinking of starting a section of my substack called "Lost Brothers: unconventional life advice for men." That said, I've grown intolerant of antisocial behaviors and attitudes, like those who call others epithets. Some are truly lost, but I hold hope they can find their way.
We need a new Daryl Davis, but for 4chan groypers with anime profile pics instead of KKK members...
Lol... not a bad idea
I check in on 4chan every month or so, and it's always interesting how, well, heterodox the discourse can be. I always come away with the impression that there are at least a handful of older, smarter, more compassionate people trying to reach out and talk troubled kids down from various ledges. It's distinct from the usual trollish contrarianism which delights in cosplaying a Zionist as much as a neo-Nazi. Whether this originates from inside or outside the community, I have no idea.
I haven't been on 4chan in years, but it's always both worse and better than you expect.
Their /ic/ board was fantastic for getting art and illustration advice back in the day.
I go straight for the filth, but it's not something I would ever recommend to anybody. Like eating a durian and smoking a stinky cigar on the toilet while the kids are in school and the house is quiet.
It's only because it's been so demonized that we feel uncomfortable talking about it, though. Prior ages were happy to talk about manliness, real men, virility, 'muscular Christianity', and make movies like Westerns and war movies where men worked together to defeat an opponent. By the late 20th century it was relegated to the realm of fantasy, but Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, Frodo Baggins, Aragorn, Captain Kirk, Mr. Spock, Jean-Luc Picard, and William Riker, to name a few, all behaved in masculine ways sooner or later, working together with other men as a group to face danger and defend their homeland.
Removing the left and govt’s boot from Twitter is “weaponizing”? Weird.
We learned a lot today. It's pretty rare that we measure anything so broadly as we do during an election. Better to pay attention than to deny valuable information.
I don't think this works in just one direction - i.e. that we strictly measure the attitudes of the population. We are measuring the way a population responds to a message - a leader or whatnot. The election measures an interaction between the population and the consensus within it.
Now we just unpack what we found...